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Post by Smitty on Jul 4, 2015 12:22:50 GMT -5
Here a few questions to get some more great discussions going. Feel free to answer any students questions with your thoughts/experience. We are all students in the forum.
Also post any questions you have about new vehicle technology.
1. Name one online resource that has free information about electric and hybrid vehicles?
2. Where is the battery located in 2015 Mercedes Benz M-Class?
3. What problems does an electric vehicle on its' side with one trapped occupant pose for a rescuer?
4. Post the name of one extrication guy (from a magazine, book, website, academy, tool dealer, etc) and something you learned from him/her.
5. Have you had the cutters stall out on a cut? If so, briefly explain the call and how you over came it.
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Post by corey85 on Jul 4, 2015 17:07:54 GMT -5
I'm going old school with this...took a lot of rescue classes from Harvey Grant with Rescue Training Associates...learned a ton of techniques and tricks..some of which still apply today....moat of all learned to not rely on the hydraulic tools exclusively and to have plans b and c ready to go.
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Post by fire24 on Jul 5, 2015 17:53:53 GMT -5
With the roll over protection arm extensions you discussed. You mentioned that road racers deployed them before they race and that the commonly found on convertibles. Where do they extend from and how long of a reach do they have? Also are they multi use and can be put back in after racing?
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Post by medic969 on Jul 5, 2015 21:42:53 GMT -5
1) - the app that I use is the hybrid vehicle extrication guide. I have not used on a call yet, but have just played around with it when I am bored.
2) - the above app only has the 2010-2013 ML450 hybrid 3.5 5dr SUV and its electric components that are greater than 30V are located in rear floor pan area. I googled the model you requested and after 30min gave up, which I can assume was the whole point. It is really hard to stay current with free apps. Maybe a paid app is better?
3) - I don't know if it poses anything different than a normal car. Unless there is more concern of leaking acid from batteries? This is one reason I signed up for this!
4) - One of the first courses I took was during my paramedic course, called ITLS access. Bruce Patterson was one of course designers, co authors of the book. As my experiences had been only on ambulances with no extrication tools and the local volunteer fire department only had manual hydraulics, I learned how to take apart cars with hack saws, crescent wrenches and other small tools that were required by law to be on the ambulance. It was not fast, but it worked.
5) - I have never had equipment stall out yet.
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Post by Smitty on Jul 6, 2015 10:27:18 GMT -5
The Moditech Crash Recovery System is really good. The image below is of the 2015 Mercedes Benz M-Class taken from it and was in the PowerPoint.  The center of gravity change and the weight distribution is different. With the batteries located in the floor or in the truck area can make a side or roof resting vehicle behave different. But in the end, it does just need to be stabilized. Just be careful when using piercing tips on struts with EV vehicles that have batteries in the floor pan. |
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Post by Smitty on Jul 6, 2015 10:34:15 GMT -5
With the roll over protection arm extensions you discussed. You mentioned that road racers deployed them before they race and that the commonly found on convertibles. Where do they extend from and how long of a reach do they have? Also are they multi use and can be put back in after racing? Here is a Youtube video of a BMW ROP System. Here is a Youtube video of a crash test showing the ROP System deploy. Here is a Youtube video of a system deploying in slow motion. Most can be reset easily. I have more information on that I will post later. |
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Post by tgardner on Jul 6, 2015 12:41:02 GMT -5
I recently read the article that Isaac Frazier had in fire engineering about a steering wheel lift using a 4x4 and spreaders With a chain to do a lift. Can't wait to try that. Also the danger an electric vehicle on its side can pose to a rescuer is using the sharp point of the struts possibly going through the battery.
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Post by Smitty on Jul 6, 2015 12:45:04 GMT -5
I recently read the article that Isaac Frazier had in fire engineering about a steering wheel lift using a 4x4 and spreaders With a chain to do a lift. Can't wait to try that. Also the danger an electric vehicle on its side can pose to a rescuer is using the sharp point of the struts possibly going through the battery. Very true. Isaac is a street smart tech rescue guy! Make sure you follow his Facebook page Tactical Advantage Training. In the Outside the box video we show how you can use the spreaders to displace the steering wheel pushing off the rocker panel. |
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Post by gaudettb on Jul 6, 2015 13:05:15 GMT -5
Answers to Questions for Video # 1:
1) I recently have found the CDX Online eTextbook page. Has a lot of good information on Hybrid vehicles, Electric vehicles and just about everything vehicle related.
2) Mercedes 2015 M-Class battery location- Under the front passenger seat.
3) Li- Ion Battery on the floor pan. Responders must take care not to puncture this area during stabilization procedures.
4) Ron Moore- I have learnt a lot from Ron through his website, but his video on the modified Dash Lift changed the way we tackle a single vehicle occupant who is pinned by the dash. We rarely every cut a windshield in our extrication activities anymore.
5) Recently on an A- Post... we repositioned and attacked the cut from a slightly different angle and achieved success. the metal seemed to bunch up in a manner that the cutters couldn't handle.
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Post by huddle on Jul 6, 2015 13:05:45 GMT -5
#1 - I have been using a free app called extricate it has a lot of the hybrid cars in it but not all of them. It is decent. I also have a QR code reader for the codes on the Mercedes
#2 - covered above
#3 - covered above
#4 - Cant remember the instructors name but when at Mid-Atlantic Extrication challenge they had a station of going back to the basics and it was good to take the hydraulics and power tools out of the game and still get the job done
#5 - Not on a call but last week while working on some new vehicles out at our training ground after draining the fuels I was cutting the saddle tank off a old Cement Mixer that was covered in old cement. While making the cuts to remove the saddle tank the cutter broke. It seemed a gasket or inner seal failed causing hydraulic to come out of the tool. The tool still functioned but did not have a second stage and would not make the cut. I changed over to an air chisel and sawzall to make the remaining cuts.
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Post by Smitty on Jul 6, 2015 13:16:10 GMT -5
Answers to Questions for Video # 1: 1) I recently have found the CDX Online eTextbook page. Has a lot of good information on Hybrid vehicles, Electric vehicles and just about everything vehicle related. CDX Online eTextbook page 4) Ron Moore- I have learnt a lot from Ron through his website, but his video on the modified Dash Lift changed the way we tackle a single vehicle occupant who is pinned by the dash. We rarely every cut a windshield in our extrication activities anymore. 5) Recently on an A- Post... we repositioned and attacked the cut from a slightly different angle and achieved success. the metal seemed to bunch up in a manner that the cutters couldn't handle. I will look into the CDX Online eTextbook, looks very good from a quick look. Thanks for sharing that! I can tell you I have learned a bunch from Ron Moore. Here's a post from 2010 when I first met him POH Regional Medical Center with Ron Moore. Re-positioning the cutters is a key tip and technique! |
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Post by Smitty on Jul 6, 2015 13:20:41 GMT -5
#1 - I have been using a free app called extricate it has a lot of the hybrid cars in it but not all of them. It is decent. I also have a QR code reader for the codes on the Mercedes #5 - Not on a call but last week while working on some new vehicles out at our training ground after draining the fuels I was cutting the saddle tank off a old Cement Mixer that was covered in old cement. While making the cuts to remove the saddle tank the cutter broke. It seemed a gasket or inner seal failed causing hydraulic to come out of the tool. The tool still functioned but did not have a second stage and would not make the cut. I changed over to an air chisel and sawzall to make the remaining cuts. My only beef with the extricate is the last time it was updated was in 2013. Always have a plan B, C, etc! The Game Changer: the first carbide tipped recip blade designed for metal - the Diablo Steel Demon is a new blade that can make the sawzall player in the game again against the new metals. Here's a YouTube video of the blade. I have a dozen of them just getting a bunch of B-pillar to test them on.  ![]() |
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Post by medic969 on Jul 6, 2015 14:11:57 GMT -5
The Moditech Crash Recovery System is really good. The image below is of the 2015 Mercedes Benz M-Class taken from it and was in the PowerPoint. Our new training officer said that the Holmatro app is very good. But it is for ipad2 only on IOS systems and for Android 4.0 tablets. 14.99 from apple store. Has anyone used it? |
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Post by Smitty on Jul 6, 2015 15:01:08 GMT -5
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Post by ltdurden on Jul 6, 2015 15:39:34 GMT -5
Video 1 Answer's:
1. Moditech, Holmatro, I use the Hybrid Extrication guide on my Android.
2. It's located under the passenger seat.
3. We have to work with the center of gravity. Be careful as to not puncture underneath into the battery.
4. Ron Moore, University of Extrication, Firehouse Magazine. I have learned so much from his articles and video's I can't list them all.
5. Never |
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